I saw the ad in last week's paper ... it's very eye-catching. And why not? The pastor runs a marketing company on the side. See also.
Seriously. The church and his company share a P.O. box.
The pastor also seems to be an inventor:
the creator of 'The Success-ercisE Exercise & Personal Motivation System', is recognized as one of the leading experts on how people can use the physiological and emotional benefits of physical activity to achieve personal, business and fitness success.Read the whole blurb and note that the photo there is the same as the photo here.
Among the sermon recordings, there's an address to the Campus Crusade group at Brookdale.
The wife is a make-up artist.
20 comments:
I attend the new church in town, The Great Commission Bible Chuch. I have lived in Millstone for 10 years. I was born into the catholic religion and attended catholic school for 8 years. I decided to leave the catholic church in 1993 when some wonderful people told me about what the Bible says. I started attending a Baptist church and while attending there came to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior! He has changed my life in amazing ways. This new church here in Millstone is a Bible Preaching church. In the book of Acts, Jesus said to go out and preach the Gospel to all nations. Jesus is the foundation of this new church. The Pastor is a great man who loves the Lord. He is not pretentious and very humble and although it is true that he makes a living in advertising (which he is very good at doing) it is no reflection on what his heart is all about. And yes his wonderful beautiful wife is a make-up artist but she also loves Jesus and is raising her family under the truth of the word of God. So please do not judge but instead come by and visit us at our church service on Sunday at 10:00 am in the elementary school.
In Christ's Love
Dina
I appreciate your comment, Dina.
I too was born into the Catholic religion but did not attend Catholic school until graduate school in Lakewood.
I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior as a junior in college, at a Christmas Conference in Philadelphia with Campus Crusade for Christ on New Year's Eve, 1988, praying face-down in a circle of other Christians, on the ballroom floor of the Adam's Mark hotel. You can read my testimony here.
My post started out as a celebration of a new church in town.
But as I listened to sermons on the web site and researched the pastor online, the post turned out differently than I expected. I moved the post off the "front page" while I mulled it over. I had every intention of visiting the church some Sunday morning but now I wonder whether I would be welcome as a committed, practicing Catholic.
You know the commandment to honor your father and your mother. Among other wonderful things, they brought you up in the Catholic faith. Does your faith honor them? "Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it."
With the Holy Father's imminent visit to our area, may you reflect on the significance of the Catholic faith, the eucharist and the liturgy. You really can "have it all!"
Peace in Christ.
Hi Teresa,
Pat here. Thanks for your posts and
comments. And I really mean it. Also, we
would welcome you any Sunday. Although
we do have many differences in our theology and beliefs, we do have one common denominator from your testimony...the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
I would very much enjoy a discussion
regarding the Catholic faith. If you're
up to it, here's a bunch of questions...
For instance, you mentioned in your
post to Dina "With the Holy Father's
imminent visit to our area, may you
reflect on the significance of the
Catholic faith, the eucharist and the
liturgy. You really can "have it all!""
Below are some issues and questions I
have with that if you could comment, it
would be great.
I. Tradition equal with Scripture in
Authority (this is probably our "page
one" difference:
-Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full
well ye reject the commandment of God,
that ye may keep your own tradition.
-Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of
none effect through your tradition,
which ye have delivered: and many such
like things do ye.
-Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you
through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the
rudiments of the world, and not after
Christ.
II. Eucharist as a reappearance of
Jesus to be worshipped:
-Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have
suffered since the foundation of the
world: but now once in the end of the
world hath he appeared to put away sin
by the sacrifice of himself.
-Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of
Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into
heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken
up from you into heaven, shall so come
in like manner as ye have seen him go
into heaven.
-Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say
unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
-Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh
out of the east, and shineth even unto
the west; so shall also the coming of
the Son of man be.
III. Papal Authority & infallibility
-Act 17:11 These were more noble than
those in Thessalonica, in that they
received the word with all readiness of
mind, and searched the scriptures
daily, whether those things were so.
-Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said
unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:
thou art an offence unto me: for thou
savourest not the things that be of
God, but those that be of men.
-Gal 2:11-14 ¶ But when Peter was come
to Antioch, I withstood him to the
face, because he was to be blamed. For
before that certain came from James, he
did eat with the Gentiles: but when
they were come, he withdrew and
separated himself, fearing them which
were of the circumcision. And the other
Jews dissembled likewise with him;
insomuch that Barnabas also was carried
away with their dissimulation. But when
I saw that they walked not uprightly
according to the truth of the gospel,
I said unto Peter before [them] all, If
thou, being a Jew, livest after the
manner of Gentiles, and not as do the
Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles
to live as do the Jews?
Pope is "holy father" or head of church
-Col 1:18 And he is the head of the
body, the church: who is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead; that in
all [things] he might have the
preeminence.For it pleased [the Father]
that in him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the
blood of his cross, by him to reconcile
all things unto himself; by him, [I
say], whether [they be] things in
earth, or things in heaven.
Priests continue to offer Jesus as a
sacrifice for sin:
-Hbr 10:12 But this man, (Jesus) after
he had offered one sacrifice for sins
for ever, sat down on the right hand of
God;
-Hbr 10:18 Now where remission of
these [is, there is] no more offering
for sin.
-Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had
received the vinegar, he said, It is
finished: and he bowed his head, and
gave up the ghost.
I'm also wondering about 841 of the
Catechism of The Catholic Church:
"The plan of salvation also includes
Muslums"
-Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in
any other: for there is none other name
under heaven given among men, whereby
we must be saved.
Again, sorry for all the verses and
content but I would love to discuss
these with you either online or in
person. Our ministry team will also be
attending the popes visit this month in
NY, to hopefully have other good discussions with people who would like to talk about these things.
Many thanks!
Pat Necerato
www.FreeEternityTest.com
1. "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thess. 2:15)
2. "For then must he often have
suffered ..."
When a repentant sinner comes to the cross of Christ, who was crucified once for all (Heb. 7:27), for forgiveness, how can Christ's blood be applied unless His sacrifice endures, even today? The sacrifice of the Mass isn't any different than the belief that a repentant sinner may receive mercy and forgiveness through the blood of the risen Christ at the foot of the cross.
3. Church authority
"And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed." (Acts 14:23)
"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." (1 Tim. 5:17)
"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: ... Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." (1 Peter 5:1, 5:5)
Even as a church plant, does Great Commission Bible Church have a board of ruling elders?
4. CCC 841 references a document from the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, paragraph 16:
Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature",(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.
18. Mk. 1, 15; cf. Mt. 4, 17.
19. Mk. 4, 14.
20 Lk. 12, 32.
125 Cf. Rom. 9, 4-5
126 Cf. Rom. 11, 28-29.
127 Cf. Acts 17,25-28.
128 Cf. 1 Tim. 2, 4.
129 Cf Rom. 1, 21, 25.
130 Mk. 16, 16.
On the Muslim and non-Christian question, I adopt the perspective of C. S. Lewis, as articulated in Mere Christianity (Chapter 10: "The Practical Conclusion"):
Here is another thing that used to puzzle me. Is it not frightfully unfair that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and been able to believe in Him? But the truth is God has not told us what His arrangements about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him.
I hope the Pope's visit is a blessing to you and that you listen as well as talk.
Hi Teresa,
Happy Friday evening! Thanks so much for answering my questions.
I appreciate your comments and reply.
I've replied within your text below in CAPS. ;-)
1. "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have
been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thess. 2:15)
THIS WOULD MEAN TO FOLLOW THE TRADITION OF SCRIPTURE AND THE TEACHING OF
PAUL.
2. "For then must he often have
suffered ..."
MEANING, IF MORE THAN ONE SACRFICE WAS NEEDED, "FOR THEN MUST HE OFTEN HAVE
SUFFERED..." BUT HE DIDN'T MUST OFTEN HAVE SUFFERED, ONLY ONCE AS NOTED
BEFORE.
When a repentant sinner comes to the cross of Christ, who was crucified once
for all (Heb. 7:27), for forgiveness, how can Christ's blood be applied unless
His sacrifice endures, even today?
SEE THESE SCRIPTURES:
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
Hbr 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
HIS SACRIFICE ENDURES THROUGH FAITH.
The sacrifice of the Mass isn't any different than the belief that a repentant
sinner may receive mercy and forgiveness through the blood of the risen Christ
at the foot of the cross.
A REPENTANT SINNER RECEIVES MERCY AND FORGIVENESS BY GOD'S GRACE THROUGH FAITH WITH NO WORK REQUIRED. THIS NEGATES OR AT LEAST MINIMIZES THE WORK OF CHRIST AND IS TERRIFYINGLY CLOSE TO BLASPHEMY.
SCRIPTURE:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
3. Church authority
"And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with
fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed." (Acts 14:23)
I AGREE.
"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially
they who labour in the word and doctrine." (1 Tim. 5:17)
I AGREE.
"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness
of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be
revealed: ... Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all
of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God
resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." (1 Peter 5:1, 5:5)
I AGREE.
Even as a church plant, does Great Commission Bible Church have a board of
ruling elders?
YES AND 2 OVERSEERS.
4. CCC 841 references a document from the Second Vatican Council, Lumen
Gentium, paragraph 16:
THIS I DON'T AGREE WITH AND FEEL IT COMPROMISES THE TRUE GOSPEL. JUST BEING HONEST. THIS IS WHAT REALLY MAKES ME WANT TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS. THE SCARIEST WORDS IN ALL OF SCRIPTURE ARE:
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
IF THE BIBLE IS THE LITERAL, FLAWLESS, PURE WORD OF GOD WITHOUT ERROR (WHICH I KNOW YOU DO NOT BELIEVE), THEN THIS INFORMATION WILL KEEP MANY FROM TRULY KNOWING JESUS CHRIST.
Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various
ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people
to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was
born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people
remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of
the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who
acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the
Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore
the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God
far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it
is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour
wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who
through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church,
yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will
as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does
Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without
blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and
with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found
amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the
Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that
they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have
become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie,
serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who,
living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair.
Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of
these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every
creature",(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.
18. Mk. 1, 15; cf. Mt. 4, 17.
19. Mk. 4, 14.
20 Lk. 12, 32.
125 Cf. Rom. 9, 4-5
126 Cf. Rom. 11, 28-29.
127 Cf. Acts 17,25-28.
128 Cf. 1 Tim. 2, 4.
129 Cf Rom. 1, 21, 25.
130 Mk. 16, 16.
On the Muslim and non-Christian question, I adopt the perspective of C. S.
Lewis, as articulated in Mere Christianity (Chapter 10: "The Practical
Conclusion"):
AGAIN, I BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS IN JOHN 14:6 AND ACTS 4:12
Here is another thing that used to puzzle me. Is it not frightfully unfair
that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and
been able to believe in Him? But the truth is God has not told us what His
arrangements about the other people are. We do know that no man can be saved
except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be
saved through Him.
PLEASE READ ROMANS CHAPTER 1. GOD MAKES IT CLEAR THAT ALL ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.
ALSO READ ROM 2:12-16 AND...Rom 3:19: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
I hope the Pope's visit is a blessing to you and that you listen as well as
talk.
THANK YOU AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING THE TIME ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.
PAT
A REPENTANT SINNER RECEIVES MERCY AND FORGIVENESS BY GOD'S GRACE THROUGH FAITH
Are you denying that Christ's blood redeems?
"For you know that you were redeemed from your empty way of life inherited from the fathers, not with perishable things, like silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without defect or blemish." (1 Peter 1:18-19)
Peter believes and teaches that the blood shed by Christ on Calvary is available to his post-resurrection readers. It was available then. It's available now. And it will be available to the tribulation saints who wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb (Rev. 7:14).
It's available 2,000+ years after it was shed. Absolutely amazing! But you deny this.
THIS WOULD MEAN TO FOLLOW THE TRADITION OF SCRIPTURE AND THE TEACHING OF
PAUL.
Scripture teaches that believers "continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." (Acts 2:42).
Paul teaches in Romans 12:6 that the spiritual gift of prophecy may be used only "according to the standard of faith."
Paul commands the brethren at Thessalonica in the name of Jesus Christ to "ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us." (2 Thess. 3:6)
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. Latter traditions like sola scriptura are not according to the apostolic standard of faith.
... PLEASE READ ROMANS CHAPTER 1. GOD MAKES IT CLEAR THAT ALL ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.
The first chapter of Romans leaves men without excuse as pertaining to theistic belief, not Christian faith: "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."
Also, 1 Cor. 1:21 - "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
A Reformed confession puts it this way: "Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation."
Knowledge of sin (and subsequent recognition of a need for a Savior) comes through the Mosaic Law which only Jews and Christians know about (Rom. 3:20).
In Romans, chapter 2, Paul teaches "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus."
Lumen Gentium and the Catholic catechism come closer to expressing Paul's complete teaching on these matters than you do.
IF THE BIBLE IS THE LITERAL, FLAWLESS, PURE WORD OF GOD WITHOUT ERROR (WHICH I KNOW YOU DO NOT BELIEVE),
Shall I repeat the old evangelical saw that "the Bible is inerrant in the original manuscripts" with the ready caveat, "which are no longer extant?" What's the point? I hold the more tenable position that the Bible is reliable. Admit it, we are quoting Scripture to each other, are we not? I trust it.
I would appreciate your prayers very sincerely. And I will try to pray for you. shabbat shalom.
HI TERESA,
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR TALK AND COMMENTS. I'VE COMMENTED WITHIN THE TEXT BELOW.HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!
PAT
A REPENTANT SINNER RECEIVES MERCY AND FORGIVENESS BY GOD'S GRACE THROUGH FAITH
Are you denying that Christ's blood redeems?
THAT'S A BIT OF AN ATTEMPT FOR A RABBIT'S TRAIL. IN ANY CASE, I'LL STATE THE SAME SCRIPTURES WHICH KEEP THIS SEGMENT IN CONTEXT:
Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the
body of Jesus Christ ***once*** [for all].
Hbr 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes
the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
sat down on the right hand of God;
OF COURSE CHRISTS BLOOD REDEEMS! WITHOUT IT, WE WOULD HAVE A VERY BIG, IMPOSSIBLE DEBT TO PAY. AMEN! HOWEVER, BECAUSE OF THE TRADTIONS AND "WORKS" BASED TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, WHICH PREVENT OR AT LEAST ELIMINATE THE URGENCY OF TRUE REPENTANCE AND FAITH IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS, AND INSTEAD MOVE THEIR MEMBERS TOWARDS A CASUAL DEPENDANCE ON SACRAMENTS FOR GRACE, EUCHARIST FOR "RECEIVING CHRIST", ETC, HERE LIES THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. THIS IS ANOTHER GOSPEL.
ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS MOVED TO ANOTHER GOSPEL, ANOTHER JESUS. NOT THE ONE FROM THE BIBLE. MY BURDEN IS FOR THE UNTOLD AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT WILL PERISH IN HELL BECAUSE OF THIS. I TRULY DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND YOU....JUST WANT TO GET TO THE CORE OF THE ISSUE. MORE BELOW ON THIS.
"For you know that you were redeemed from your empty way of life inherited
from the fathers, not with perishable things, like silver or gold, but with
the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without defect or blemish."
(1 Peter 1:18-19)
Peter believes and teaches that the blood shed by Christ on Calvary is
available to his post-resurrection readers. It was available then. It's
available now. And it will be available to the tribulation saints who wash
their robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb (Rev. 7:14).
OF COURSE.
It's available 2,000+ years after it was shed. Absolutely amazing! But you
deny this.
DENYING THE SHED BLOOD OF CHRIST ATONES WHEN REPEATED IN WEEKLY SACRIFICES BY
A PRIEST...YES. THAT IS BLASPHEMY AND IS WORSHIP TO ANOTHER GOD, NOT THE GOD
OF THE BIBLE.
HOWEVER, I PRAISE GOD FOR THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST, **SHED ONE TIME,
**ONLY ONCE, WHICH NOW PAYS FOR ALL OF MY SINS, PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE, AND FUTURE FOR ALL WHO TRUST IN THAT ONE TIME "PAYMENT" BY REPENTANCE AND FAITH NOT A WEEKLY SACRIFICE DONE BY A PRIEST,ETC. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE REPEATED EACH WEEK TO STILL ATONE. IF IT DID, THEN YOUR SIN DEBT COULD NEVER BE PAID; BELIEVING IN A REPEATED SACRIFICE GIVES STRONG IMPLICATION TO THE LACK OF FAITH IN THE FIRST SACRIFICE WHICH MEANS BIG TROUBLE.
THE DEATH OF JESUS, IE, THE SPILLING OF HIS BLOOD, SATISFIED THE WRATH OF
(A HOLY RIGHTEOUS) GOD AT THE CROSS ONCE. "IT IS FINISHED". HE ROSE FOR OUR
JUSTIFICATION-ONCE...MEANING, THIS PROVES THAT GOD IS SATISFIED AND NO WEEKLY SACRIFICE OR RITUAL IS NEEDED. YOU CAN HAVE CERTAINTY THAT JESUS' ONE TIME SPILLING OF BLOOD COVERS YOUR SINS AND IS STILL AVAILABLE AND WILL BE
AVAILABLE TO ALL THAT CALL ON HIM UNTIL THE END.
THIS WOULD MEAN TO FOLLOW THE TRADITION OF SCRIPTURE AND THE TEACHING OF
PAUL.
Scripture teaches that believers "continued stedfastly in the apostles'
doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." (Acts
2:42).
YES, BUT NOT IN ANY "NEW" DOCTRINE OR GOSPEL. PLEASE READ:
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
AND:
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
I'M SURE YOU AGREE THAT PAUL CERTAILY WOULD NOT WANT US TO FOLLOW A FALSE CHURCH OR GROUP OF FALSE APOSTLES THAT TEACH SOMETHING OTHER THAT WHAT HE WAS TEACHING. MEANING FOLLOW ANYTHING OR ANYONE THAT MOVES FROM WHAT HE TOLD US IN SCRIPTURE OR THAT GOD HAS WROTE IN THE BIBLE.
Paul teaches in Romans 12:6 that the spiritual gift of prophecy may be used
only "according to the standard of faith."
OK.
Paul commands the brethren at Thessalonica in the name of Jesus Christ to "ye
withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after
the tradition which he received of us." (2 Thess. 3:6)
OK
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. Latter traditions like sola scriptura are not according to the apostolic standard of faith.
AGAIN, ANOTHER GOSPEL, ANOTHER DOCTRINE, ANOTHER GOD LEADING TO ANOTHER CHURCH. THE GOD OF THE BIBLE WROTE SCRIPTURE FOR US TO LIVE BY. HE WRITES:
PLEASE READ:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all
good works.
... PLEASE READ ROMANS CHAPTER 1. GOD MAKES IT CLEAR THAT **ALL ARE WITHOUT
EXCUSE.
The first chapter of Romans leaves men without excuse as pertaining to
theistic belief, not Christian faith: "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever
since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they
are without excuse."
AGAIN, IT'S CLEAR HE'S TALKING ABOUT SIN DISQUALIFYING ALL PEOPLE.
ALL OF CHAPTER 1 AND TWO AND THE VERSES I WROTE EARLIER SHOW THIS.
THROUGHOUT THE PSALMS AND MANY VERSES (TOO MANY TO LIST) SHOW **ALL HAVE SINNED AND WILL BE PUNISHED.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; ETC,..
GOD COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT (ACTS 17) BECAUSE HE WILL JUDGE ALL MEN..NOT ON THEIR GOOD WORKS, CHURCH AFFILIATION, ETC...BUT BY HIS HOLINESS, IE, THE STANDARD OF HIS LAW..LIES, WORSHIP OF ANOTHER GOD, LUST, ETC.
AGAIN, GOD COMMANDS US TO GO WITH THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE
BY FAITH. AND TO BE BORN AGAIN? BY THE WAY, HAVE YOU BEEN BORN AGAIN?
Also, 1 Cor. 1:21 - "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom
knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that
believe."
AMEN.
A Reformed confession puts it this way: "Although the light of nature, and the
works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and
power of God, as to leave men unexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give
that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation."
I TOTALLY DISAGREE ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE.
Knowledge of sin (and subsequent recognition of a need for a Savior) comes
through the Mosaic Law which only Jews and Christians know about (Rom. 3:20).
NOT TRUE ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without
law: GOD HAS WRITTEN THE LAW ON OUR HEARTS AS IT SAYS. ALL ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE AND IN 3:19 "**the world** may become guilty before God."
In Romans, chapter 2, Paul teaches "For when Gentiles, who do not have the
law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus."
Lumen Gentium and the Catholic catechism come closer to expressing Paul's
complete teaching on these matters than you do.
IF THE BIBLE IS THE LITERAL, FLAWLESS, PURE WORD OF GOD WITHOUT ERROR (WHICH I
KNOW YOU DO NOT BELIEVE),
Shall I repeat the old evangelical saw that "the Bible is inerrant in the
original manuscripts" with the ready caveat, "which are no longer extant?"
What's the point? I hold the more tenable position that the Bible is reliable.
Admit it, we are quoting Scripture to each other, are we not? I trust it.
RELIABLE AND INFALLIBLE WILL TAKE TWO PEOPLE DOWN TO DIFFERENT ROADS. SEEMING CLOSE IN THE BEGINNING BUT WORLDS APART AT THE END. WOULD YOU RATHER WALK ON A RELIABLE BRIDGE OR AN INFALLABLE BRIGE?
AS I SAID, OUR "PAGE ONE" DISAGREEMENT IS SCRIPTURE VS TRADITION.
WHICH LEADS TO MY BIGGEST CONCERN: ANOTHER JESUS, ANOTHER GOSPEL BEING
PREACHED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DECEIVING MANY. AND ON THAT DAY, THEM PERISHING IN HELL. WHAT A TRAGIC HORRIFIC SITUATION AND HOW IT BURDENS ME DAY AND NIGHT.
I would appreciate your prayers very sincerely. And I will try to pray for
you. shabbat shalom.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRAYERS! I AM PRAYING FOR YOU. AND AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS. YOU DO SEEM TO BE WELL VERSED IN THE CATHOLIC FAITH. WOULD YOU CONSIDER READING A BOOK REGARDING SOME OF THESE THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT? I AM NOT THAT GOOD AT EXPRESSING THESE ISSUES BUT WOULD LOVE TO SEND YOU A BOOK OR DVD THAT I HAVE WHICH CLOSELY TAKES CATHOLISM AND SCRIPTURE AND WEIGHT OUT THESE ARGUMENTS EVEN DEEPER? I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED ON YOUR TAKE ON IT. INTERESTED? IF SO, I WOULD LOVE TO DROP IT TO YOU SOMEHOW. THANKS AGAIN AND HAVE A GREAT WKND!
PAT
Are you denying that Christ's blood redeems?
THAT'S A BIT OF AN ATTEMPT FOR A RABBIT'S TRAIL.
You're right and I regret it. I apologize.
But the redeeming blood of Christ is a crucial component of Paul's teaching: "For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come." (1 Cor. 11:23-26).
More from C. S. Lewis (same chapter as before):
"There are three things that spread the Christ life to us: baptism, belief, and that mysterious action which different Christians call by different names--Holy Communion, the Mass, the Lord's Supper. At least, those are the three ordinary methods. I am not saying there may not be special cases where it is spread without one or more of these. I have not time to go into special cases, and I do not know enough. [...] And I am not saying anything about which of these three things is the most essential. [...] Anyone who professes to teach you Christian doctrine will, in fact, tell you to use all three, and that is enough for our present purpose."
Does your gospel preach baptism, faith and the Lord's supper? Or do you preach another gospel?
You seriously misunderstand and misappropriate the Scriptures, especially the Letter to the Hebrews. Who taught you to read the Scriptures in such a skewed way?
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
True enough and again, "These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
Cf. Rev. 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God" and Rev. 21:14 "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."
WOULD YOU RATHER WALK ON A RELIABLE BRIDGE OR AN INFALLABLE BRIGE?
Do you know anything about the transmission of the text of the Bible? Bible Christians love to play "telephone" to demonstrate how quickly an oral message gets jumbled. Try this: write out a chapter or two of the Greek New Testament or the Hebrew Scriptures - whether you know these languages or not. Then pass your work along to someone else for them to copy again. If you have the time, wait five or ten years of constant use between your copies. Let me know how accurate your copies are.
What is the title of the book that you have? I may already have it. Did you read the link from my home page to the Christianity Today article entitled "Living With Tares?" I read it again last night and I think it comes close to explaining my understanding of "church." I recommend it to you.
You do a fine job expressing these issues but, unfortunately your interpretation of Scripture is so obviously colored by a deep prejudice against the Catholic church, I have to work extra hard to leave it off. This attitude is not unique in you but it ought to concern you some. Don't you think?
Am I born again?
I do not use that language to describe myself.
I believe in baptismal regeneration and so consequently, I am a child of God, I am justified by grace through faith, I've died with Christ in baptism, I'm redeemed by Christ's blood, I am a partaker of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). I am trinitarian, professing the Nicene Creed at least weekly.
I am not an evangelical. I am not Protestant in matters of soteriology, ecclesiology or liturgy (worship).
Christ's peace to you.
Hi Teresa,
I have a DVD from Mike Gendron that goes through and compares Scripture vs tradition. If you like, can I send it to you or leave it somewhere for you to pick up? I'd like to hear your take on it.
I do believe Scripture to have stood the test of time as that would be God's will. (He is omnipotent and nothing is impposbile with him so this certainly is an easy task.)
I believe God when he says His Word is 100% infallible and inerrant. As Jesus is the 100% Word and endures, so does his Word(s).
The Apostles and disciples also believed this (as well as trusting the Old testament to be 100% inspired after hundreds of years of copying, but they believed the New testament scriptures to be God breathed without error and able to stand the test of time just as much as the old...)
Peter writes..
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy ; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 3 15-16 confirms Paul's writings as scripture and as the Bible states that it endures forever:
2Pe 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
God cannot lie, he tells us we can depend on his Word:
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.
God wasn't concerned about Israel miscopying:
Exd 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Isa 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
This is also pretty scary:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
My faith is in God and the Scriptures. They are purely God's Word which he has salvaged and will forever...and it is what I'll always rely on.
And since we could probably go on forever, and in my opinion, always ending up with the "Scripture vs. tradition" dead end, I'd like to switch gears and get your answer on one more thing.
It would be this...if you were to die today (hypothetically and not something that I am wishing on you or in any way would like to see...just completely hypothetical) do you believe you would be in heaven with Jesus? And if so, why?
I really have enjoyed speaking with you on this so far and I appreciate your frankness and willingness to share your beliefs.
By the way, we have a table at the Freehold mall once per month, this month it's on Fri 18th from 4-9:30. If you can stop by with your family, I'd enjoy saying hi and I can also give you that DVD. Of course, you're always welcome to visit our church service.
Thanks again,
Pat
You want to give me a DVD that criticizes my Catholic faith.
Luke 6:31 "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
Despite that (Is. 50:6), I watched the DVD here.
My reaction? I became sick to my stomach for several minutes. Then came a great deal of eye-rolling. Then genuine concern for these people who are so seriously wasting their time learning this material. Then, recognizing the material as propaganda. Then suspecting that Mr. Gendron is a tool of the devil and sympathy for you who have obviously drawn material from him. Then realizing that Mr. Gendron is a dime a dozen and an amateur compared with others.
But Mr. Gendron makes his living this way, doesn't he? He makes a living off other people's gullible hatred and fear.
Tell me, is there this much zeal against the sacramental system of the Eastern Orthodox Church?
Peter writes..
What else does Peter write shortly thereafter ... "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." (2 Peter 2:1) Where is that swift destruction of the Roman Catholic Church? Why would God allow deception for so long, of so many? Where, then, is that "city set on an hill?"
I do believe Scripture to have stood the test of time as that would be God's will. (He is omnipotent and nothing is impposbile with him so this certainly is an easy task.)
Sure, God is omnipotent but the reality of the manuscript tradition is that the content of the autographs has suffered corruption over hundreds of years and thousands of copies. Clearly this was God's will. Ever wonder why? To foster Christian unity around the church Christ founded.
if you were to die today, do you believe you would be in heaven with Jesus? And if so, why?
Only by God's grace and mercy, through Christ, and not on account of anything I've done or left undone.
PS: I tend to avoid the Mall at all costs but I will pray for an opportunity to visit the church. This was my intention all along, that is, until Dina's comment made me wonder.
And I ask again for your sincere prayers.
Hi Teresa,
Thanks again for your response. I just checked the DVD I wanted to give you and it's not the one you referred to. It called "Catholicism, Crisis of Faith".
It basically compares some of the Catholic traditions and practices to scripture. I purchased it from the Pro-gospel site but it actually isn't Mike Gendron. It has several RC Priests and Nuns that converted and give testimony.
Quick question regarding your comment about my question, "if you were to die today, do you believe you would be in heaven with Jesus? And if so, why?"
You said:
"Only by God's grace and mercy, through Christ, and not on account of anything I've done or left undone."
Do you think most Catholics would have that answer?
I ask because, as you may know, the Catechism says "For this reason the Eucharist cannot unite us to Christ without at the same time cleansing us from past sins and preserving us from future sins:" Pg. 351, #1393"
"By the same charity that it enkindles in us, the Eucharist preserves
us from future mortal sins." Pg. 352, #1395
This seems to imply a "work" or having to do something, i.e. receive the Eucharist, get cleansed from past sin and get preserved from future sins; rather than have faith in Christ without works as the Bible teaches.
The Bible saying, "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." 1 John 1:7"
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness...Unto him that
loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," Revelation 1:5
I know you mentioned the redemption of Christ's blood and having to do nothing, however the Catechism states otherwise. Do you think many Catholics feel like you do, or do you think they believe the Catechism mentioned above?
Will certainly continue to pray for you and again, thank you sincerely for discussing this with me.
Pat
Hello Teresa,
My name is Dina and I responded on your blog a few days ago. I am writing you to ask you to please take off the link to Pat and Natalie's Families web site you have coded as (they're connected). The one with their Uncle. Being that there are children's photos posted and personal info the family is a little concerned that you have a link to it. I am sure that since you are a mother too you would not want your childrens photos posted all over the internet.
Thank you so much.
ps We were hoping you would have come by the church to check it out.
Dina
you mentioned the redemption of Christ's blood and having to do nothing
That was just me being poor in spirit. My faith is actually quite weak and quite small and I was answering from the heart.
Let me answer you now from my mind which is stronger:
Saving faith is not passive. Even a monergist theologian like Sproul admits that Lazarus "comes out" (John 11:43-44). The Lord Jesus demands obedience (Luke 9:23). See also John Piper's book, available online. Bugger, I paid money for it!
You are confusing justification with sanctification or, rather, ignoring sanctification altogether. An occupational hazard, perhaps, given your vocation as evangelist ... a vocation you carry out in obedience! Unless you are also earning your salvation?
Many people leave Evangelicalism, frustrated with its emphasis on justification at the expense of Christian living. There is no depth of spirituality. That was my experience of it, anyway.
The Bible saying, "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." 1 John 1:7"
Sure, but we still ask:
Jesus taught his disciples to pray, "forgive us our sins" (Luke 11:4); John teaches confession of sins: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. A verse Campus Crusade taught me to memorize! :-)
You've said our biggest disagreement is Scripture vs. Tradition. I see it as a question of continuity. How much continuity between the Old and New Testaments, between the early church and today?
Are you familiar with the church historian, Lutheran-turned-Orthodox Christian Jaroslav Pelikan? I have the first volume of his magnum opus on my nightstand and simply reading a few pages, it's clear to me that you are outside of this. Check him out and see what you are missing.
Yes, read the Catechism with an open and humble heart, asking God for mercy and insight.
I don't mind discussing these things with you. I have Calvinist friends all the time who similarly challenge me. I don't take these matters lightly. However, I trust God above my own understanding (Proverbs 3:5).
I prayed for you and your family last night. And I still welcome your heartfelt prayers as well.
I'll close with the words of the Gloria:
Glory to God in the highest,
and, peace to his people on earth.
Lord God, heavenly King,
almighty God and Father,
we worship you, we give you thanks,
we praise you for your glory.
Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father,
Lord God, Lamb of God,
you take away the sin of the world:
have mercy on us;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father:
receive our prayer.
For you alone are the Holy One,
you alone are the Lord,
you alone are the Most High,
Jesus Christ,
with the Holy Spirit,
in the glory of God the Father. Amen.
I am writing you to ask you to please take off the link to Pat and Natalie's Families
Done.
Dina, I will point out that it was your comment on the church's website in reference to Pat's wife's name that enabled an internet search on family name, turning up that extensive family tree.
So, be careful what you post because I haven't any private information here. Everything I posted is readily available online.
I even left off the stuff about Pat's motivational speaking experience.
Care to explain why you left the Baptist church for Pat's church?
Thanks Teresa. Thought we were done but I'm glad you're still here.
Couple of quick things...
As we know, Jesus said the gate is narrow..many Evangelicals don't realize the road is narrow too. So I'm with you on the active faith rather than passive.
It's about obedience and your walk on the narrow road proves you walked through the narrow gate, ie, actions that prove you were changed by Christ and you are a new creature.
(Which is why I'm sure Paul says for us to examine ourselves not simply trust in a prayer, church affiliation or any experience.)
I guess my biggest concern regarding all of your last post is my overall concern of this entire conversation...
"Yes, read the Catechism with an open and humble heart, asking God for mercy and insight."
The Catechism contradicts Scripture and primarily, teaches that God's Word is not to be taken literally. This should terrify anyone following it.
God wouldn't tell us to read his scripture with a humble heart and insight (which he does) and then have me read another book which contradicts it.
I agree that the early church followed tradition and rightly so...it was the tradition explained and passed down from the scriptures, God's Word. However, it then went way off. And you know that whole argument.
Paul said if even an angel preaches another gospel that we should run and not listen (let him be anathema). How much more a church organization, an Apostle, church leader, etc., that does.
My biggest fear is that the millions of Catholics that believe Jesus is to be re-sacrificed each week and his body literally eaten, blood literall drank, etc, eucharist ritual, etc. are worshiping another Jesus and they are trampling under foot the blood of the Son of God. Among other things (statues, holy days, indulgences, papal author., mass, prayers to dead, justification by faith plus works, Mary exalted as mediatrix, etc.I could go on and on...scripture refutes all of these, meaning they were not true traditions.)
Regarding just the sacrifice of the mass; If God says this of the those that trusted in the sacrifice according to the law, how much more will his wrath be poured onto those that ritualistically re-sacrifice his Son:
Heb 10:26-31 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the the living God."
Are you ready to repent, believe scripture and trust Christ alone? Seriously, from reading your posts, the books you read, I have to be honest...you seem to be open to the thought of scripture being the literal Word of God and above tradition.
Ironically you mentioned santification... Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Jhn 17:17
Some more...
Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear (the word); then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
There are tons of scriptures that talk about the infallability of the Word, that it endures forever.
Teresa, frankly and honestly..I am not concerned about about winning a debate. That's not why I'm writing you. Believe it or not, I care about you very much and want you to see the truth. Be a lover of truth. If what the Bible says is correct, you have great reason to be concerned about your salvation and spending an eternity in Hell. I know you're going to slam me for that but please consider my motives before you do...
Also consider what the scriptures say and commit them to be the primary authority in your life and turn from anything that remotely takes you away from that they are the 100% inspired Word of God and perfect and without error. When you do you'll see the truth and be set free.
There is uncleanliness is any organization that deviates from the word of God which God will not tolerate.
2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,"
You wrote:
"I prayed for you and your family last night. And I still welcome your heartfelt prayers as well."
Thanks so much for this. I am praying for you as well.
Have a great night.
Pat
I'm not done. I'm recovering only from an unexpected illness the past two days. I'm sure your prayers helped with my recovery.
(Which is why I'm sure Paul says for us to examine ourselves
It's First John: contrition, obedience and love of the brethren ... which someone caught up in the religion of anti-Catholicism does not demonstrate.
I shall decline the DVD. I wondered how long until Chick was introduced. The DVD's review says it's disastrous.
The Catechism ... teaches that God's Word is not to be taken literally.
I'm sure the catechism teaches that God's word is to be taken in the same spirit as is intended. If intended literally, then yes. If intended spiritually, then yes. We are sensitive to the spirit as well as the letter.
Jesus is to be ... each week
Each day. The one who opposes God seeks to remove the daily sacrifice, Dan. 8:11-12.
you have great reason to be concerned about your salvation and spending an eternity in Hell.
Fear of hell has never been my motivation for believing in God.
Don't you trust God for my salvation?
-----
This is where we differ, means of grace --
A piece on sacramental theology from Peter Leithart.
Another page on sacramental theology.
I'm not sayin' a body can't be saved without the sacraments but, speaking personally, my faith isn't strong enough.
You wager yours is?
Hi Teresa,
Hope you feel better. Read your post and here are my comments (I type with my 2 yr old son yanking at my arms :-)
Regarding fearing God-its good to fear eternity in Hell:
Matt 10:28 "...fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
It's one of the reasons we preach:
2Cr 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;
It shows we've begin to understand wisdom:
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Regarding sacraments to obtain grace:
I totally understand the Catholic view which is why I am so concerned about you and all Catholic people that trust in sacraments to obtain grace (anothr gospel as I mentioned before).
Sacramental theology, according to the Bible, is not faith at all, nor does it impart grace. Nor is it trusting Christ alone as we are commanded.
Grace is unmerited favor; "by grace you are saved, through faith-and that not of yourselves."
This is where I pray for you to see the need of repentance unto salvation: Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God .
It's Christ alone; God gives you the grace and faith...Once people repent they see this and know the truth and it sets them free from dead works.
But **He** does it:
Rom 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?" He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? "
Anyway, thanks again for your comments.
Have a great night and talk soon!
Pat
Regarding sacraments to obtain grace:
I totally understand the Catholic view
Please glance at the pages I linked to see that this is historic Reformed Protestant theology.
This is that tradition that you are outside of.
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